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Is the Netroots the Next Generation?

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Barack Obama:

“When you watch Clinton vs. Gingrich or Gore vs. Bush or Kerry vs. Bush….you feel like these are fights that were taking place back in dorm rooms in the sixties.”

Matt Stoller:

But instead of coming up with new ideas, the New Left turned inward and the liberals were scared away from political combat. You can see this today in how the new and progressive movement is basically without institutional help, mentorship, or funding. Retreat to academia and the personal sphere happened because the 1960s left ignored economics and failed to defend the public as a meaningful concept.

The first post-boomer generation of political leaders is chomping at the bit. And with the possibility of a generation political realignment and power in the Democratic Party shifting significantly in just a few years, we here at TPM thought it would be interesting to bring Netroots activist and super-blogger Matt Stoller to the Coffee House to build on his past writing on the Netroots and the New Left.

Matt will post his first thoughts soon, and for the rest of the week he'll be spending some time engaging you and other Coffee House writers on how he understands this new progressive movement. If you would like to contribute a longer thought, please feel free to compose a blog post and send me the link to be included with my daily summaries.


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I just read Matt's piece of at MyDD -- I hope Todd Gitlin joins in on the conversation. Should be very interesting. 

Dissent Protects Democracy.

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I expect he will.

I'm curious whether others find the "brew" posts helpful.  After all, here it repeats what's also visible on the home page, crowding out other things. It also adds to my sense that there's too many kinds of navigation for TPM Cafe to work. Not that I don't appreciate Andrew's efforts to make the site work, his gracious and receptive bearing, and his articulate voice. 

John 

http://www.haberarts.com/

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I appreciate the thought John. I haven't posted House Brews recently largely because when there isn't a large amount of content to try to negotiate, there doesn't seem a point.

However, I think there is an important place for facilitation and summary. After all, as we both agree, the site is not as easy to make sense of as it could be.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to try to summarize the conversation to point. My hope is that this will allow readers and the writers to have a sense of where the conversation stands and how different posts have related to each other. Please do let me know if you think it's helpful tomorrow.

Question: Can't the "pacing" of these posts be improved? Matt's posted last night, and today, it seems like all of a sudden there are 4 responses on the front page. Then, on some days, we go for like a day without the front page changing at all (which has happened on other week-long discussions, usually at the end of the week).

It would seem more like a conversation if one post followed another. Now, it just seems a bit frenetic.

 

Dissent Protects Democracy.

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It's difficult because all of the posters are contributing here on top of their other job. But you're absolutely right and it's something we're working on.


I started to formulate a quick response, but quickly discovered that I held misconceptions about, Max Sawicky's "Left Fanny", and he may truly be a bona-fide FogeyLefty. If so, the satirical riff I originally planned to lay down would be innappropriate.


There is still a thought I feel is germane in this discussion, which is that both sides conflate their impact upon the last election cycle. Here is data scraped from a Rasmussen Reports table depicting party affiliations month to month between Nov. 2004 and Oct. 2006:


2006

Month|- Republ -|- Democr -|- Others-|

-----|----------|----------|---------|

Oct -|- 31.5 % -|- 37.7 % -|- 30.7% -|

Sep -|- 32.3 % -|- 37.0 % -|- 30.7% -|

Aug -|- 31.9 % -|- 37.3 % -|- 30.8% -|

Jul -|- 32.8 % -|- 36.8 % -|- 30.4% -|

Jun -|- 33.5 % -|- 37.0 % -|- 29.5% -|

May -|- 33.6 % -|- 36.4 % -|- 30.0% -|

Apr -|- 32.7 % -|- 36.4 % -|- 30.9% -|

Mar -|- 34.0 % -|- 36.7 % -|- 29.3% -|

Feb -|- 33.8 % -|- 36.5 % -|- 29.6% -|

Jan -|- 34.5 % -|- 36.1 % -|- 29.5% -|


2005

Month|- Republ -|- Democr -|- Others-|

-----|----------|----------|---------|

Dec -|- 33.9 % -|- 35.9 % -|- 30.2% -|

Nov -|- 34.1 % -|- 37.9 % -|- 28.0% -|

Oct -|- 34.1 % -|- 36.2 % -|- 29.6% -|

Sep -|- 34.8 % -|- 36.8 % -|- 28.4% -|

Aug -|- 34.9 % -|- 36.3 % -|- 28.7% -|

Jul -|- 35.3 % -|- 35.9 % -|- 28.8% -|

Jun -|- 35.6 % -|- 36.4 % -|- 27.9% -|

May -|- 35.1 % -|- 37.0 % -|- 27.9% -|

Apr -|- 34.4 % -|- 38.1 % -|- 27.5% -|

Mar -|- 35.3 % -|- 38.1 % -|- 26.6% -|

Feb -|- 36.2 % -|- 36.9 % -|- 26.8% -|

Jan -|- 36.0 % -|- 37.0 % -|- 27.0% -|


2004

Month|- Republ -|- Democr -|- Others-|

-----|----------|----------|---------|

Dec -|- 37.1 % -|- 38.8 % -|- 24.1% -|

Nov -|- 37.1 % -|- 38.6 % -|- 24.3% -|


Any assertions of a Democratic swing in the political environment is clearly false. What this shows is a trend towards non-aligned partisanship, which has wounded the Republicans significantly more than the Democrats. Anyone or group with partisan Democratic affiliation claiming last November's election was 'Democratic' and that they were a significant causation for it is blowing smoke. It is the non-aligned, swinging from the left-side of the plate, because of deep concerns over freedom and liberty, both domestically and abroad that is the reason for Pelosi's Speakership. The Democratic Party imperils their future to not understand how deeply the rights of humans matter to REAL Americans, to not stand with as one with Liberty's Progeny, and actively oppose the obscene theft of our birthright inherited from the Country's founders, and given to all of humanity. If this devolves into hissy fits about the appropriate policies used to implement domestic social goals that swing voters did not proffer a mandate for; while the theft of habeas corpus is not repealed and renounced, this turn of the wheel, this Congressional Democratic majority, is liable to be nasty, brutish and short.

I still have a vision of Feinstein's smiling face and sickly sweet assent to the government's imprisoning of humans without first securing a legitimate conviction against them, as she departed from her Guantanamo visit. Her many positive actions as a Senator will always be tainted with this should the Military Commissions Act of 2006 remain standing, and it will morph into the face of the Democratic Party.

I think your analysis of the Rasmussen data is mistaken.  All you have is raw data, not the meaning of the data.  In particular, given the sharp partisan nature of the public debate, it is not clear that anyone would move directly from Republican to Democratic.  A stop over as nonaligned may be a necessary cognitive adjustment.

The variation in Democratic data is essentially random.  Underlying individual data are not available, so we don't know how much total churning there is, but the appearance is that Republicans have moved to "other," while Democrats and prior others stay put.  Your argument amounts to, the "others" haven't become Democrats.  There is no a priori reason to expect this part of the population to move at the same time or to admit it with as much enthusiasm in polls.  They may not even realize they have become Democrats until after they have voted with Democrats in one or two elections or longer, that is until party identification has to catch up with their actual practice.

The Republicans, on the other hand, may have become nonaligned or even Democrats (although reluctant to say so) due to sharp disagreement with the current practices of the Republican party.  Thus, they KNOW they are no longer Republicans.  They can easily select the "not Republican" option although they may have a cognitive difficulty with selecting the "Democratic" option.  They may declare themselves not aligned until reflecting on their practice after several elections they realize they are aligned again (either as Democrats or back as Republicans).  With enough cognitive difficulty, the may refuse to admit that the are Democrats even with a consistent Democratic voting pattern.

My point is, your data does not become interpretation.  Since the data are aggregate, all you can say is that fewer people assert that they are aligned with Republicans, and more say they are nonaligned or aligned with "other" (whatever that means). 

My point is, your data does not become interpretation. Since the data are aggregate, all you can say is that fewer people assert that they are aligned with Republicans, and more say they are nonaligned or aligned with "other" (whatever that means).

It still means that there is almost one third of Americans eligible to vote, who do not identify with either side of the BiPolar Tug-of-War that has brought the USA to this time and place. Almost a third of America, who no longer believes that the Two Party System serves the country. How many of these people voted, and how many voted Democratic are the secondary questions you should be asking. The primary consideration should be:

Why Did They Vote Democratic?

A broad general answer should not need statistics and polls:

  • an immoral war; an event horizon into which honourable American blood and the draws against the future's revenue have been wastefully thrown, not against our REAL enemy, but against a lesser of evil, which was being controlled.
  • an overreaching powermongering hammerheaded son of a carpetbagging elitist aristocratic family, who believes he is above the supreme law of the land. Think I am wrong? Ask around to some traditional Southerners, and see how they now regard Mr. Bush. It is the Southern States that have paid a disproportionate blood fee for Mr. Bush's war upon Iraq that was ill-advised by Ivy League Yankees, and right-sided UC grads.
  • The theft of our heritage and birthright; limited governance, and natural liberty. The preponderate defamation of Human rights from an Administration and Party that Fears 1/3 of our lawful Constitutional Government, the judiciary. Americans may whine about liberal judges, but deep down they appreciate the role that the black satined moo moo wearing bunch plays in defense of the natural reach for tyranny by state actors. Upon being charged with criminal acts, even one of the biggest slanderers of the judiciary, Tommy DeLay, did not rush into trial desiring only to let the facts have their day, but instead fought back with every technicality his high-priced attorneys could conceive of in an effort to determine that the prosecutorial evidence was fruit off of a poisoned vine.
  • We are Americans, and Americans do not condone torture, do not condone inhumane acts. We are supposed to be better than that, but our president has betrayed our honour, and we all have blood on our hands.

Again, if the Democratic Party gets into asinine partisan BS before they address the most pressing concerns of the American people, they will be thrashed in very short order, and quite rightfully so. If instead they address this evilness wafting from the west wing, and start defending the Dreamtime America, they will have little meaningful opposition from a citizenry proud to have been allied with them in their noble effort.

You must choose, or rather, you damn well ought to choose, but if you don't; then hang the big ugly head that is attached to your hand wringing indecisive soul down low. You're blocking the line of sight.

"There is, therefore,
only one categorical imperative.
It is:

Act only according to that maxim
by which you can at the same time will
that it should become a universal law."

--Immanuel Kant

Almost a third of America, who no longer believes that the Two Party System serves the country.

 Wow, not sure how you made that leap.  I, myself, would prefer to see a multi-party system that worked.  But, your data do not support your assertion.

It still means that there is almost one third of Americans eligible to vote, who do not identify with either side of the BiPolar Tug-of-War that has brought the USA to this time and place. Almost a third of America, who no longer believes that the Two Party System serves the country.

I cannot agree with this.  I know a number of people who generally agree with one party's platform, but a couple sticking points prevent them from identifying with that party.  That doesn't mean they think that the two-party system is broken or doesn't serve the country.

We could certainly debate the merits of a two-party system (or lack thereof).  But I don't think that that one-third fraction represents a strong indictment.

The lesser of two evils is still, by its own definition, evil...

I've seen weblogs, indicating that habeas corpus is indeed on people's minds. To a lesser extent, I am fairly sure the trend can be seen within TPM Cafe's logs also.

Most people don't have that much to drink on Sunday night...

I mean... the first comment, "lesser of two evils" seems to be an argument from analogy where you are revealing your own anecdotal point of view.  It is not necessarily the case that everyone who doesn't join a party considers both (or even either) of the principal parties evil.

The slur about drinking results from you post about habeas corpus which seems to bear no relationship to the post to which is a response. 

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