"If none of that matters to him, does anyone really think that more street protests would change his mind?"

You are misunderstanding the point of the street protests. Bush isn't lucid and he's beyond communicating with. The street protests are directed towards the Congress, if you don't ACT, we'll throw you out in two years.

Streets protests are necessary when people feel alienated and unable to influence either major party. I mean where were you supposed to go in 1968 if you opposed the war if not to the streets?

We'll see how long Democrats can have it both ways. Sooner or later people are going to figure out that opposing the escalation is not the same as getting out of Iraq.

Seriously, if the Democrats run Hillary against McCain, where do you go if you are anti-war?

I wonder if street protests, of the type popular during the anti-war movement during Vietnam, would truly be effective? In today's media environment how would the protest be played out on our screens? How would the protestors perspective be framed? Would our national media frame it as a "with us or against us" choice or would they report the substance of the issue being protested or focus on the most extreme elements. I don't really have any confidence protests could effect a significant change of direction in policy. This President has already demonstrated that he doesn't care at all what you or I think. He is the Imperial Leader. A large protest certainly inspires those who participate, giving them a greater sense of a common-cause community, but does it help change the minds of those making the decisions at the top? That is something I just don't know.

I guess I'm just not sure that an anti-war protest, no matter how valid and how widely supported, would get a fair treatment in our corporate media today. The sound machine is so finely tuned that I think it would just be so misrepresented and every effort would be made to paint it as the "lunatic fringe is at it again".

I really hate being so cynical, since the vast majority of Americans have come to their senses and see the folly of this war, but I just don't think protests in the streets would get a fair shake.

Why do street protests convey that message better than, say, poll results and letter-writing campaigsn? No matter how large the demonstration is, it will still only constitute a small minority of Americans.

Nice post. If I may offer, and I had touched upon this line of thought earlier in the week, - relatively small, (under a million) protests or demostrations in one or two cities once a year is indeed a fruitless exercise. What we hope to achieve is ignition of a large movement, a national street movement where large masses meet regularly in cities all across America, and effectively disrupt or shut down those cities in civil peaceful protest. It is a question of the convergence of mass and energy into some approaching a criticality quantum event, where there is a massive release of force and energy.

These terms may conjure violence, - and in truth, the STATE may and probably will spark that kind of response - but these movements must be sophisticated and organized and focused singularly on peaceful civil assembly, protest, and demonstration. Ghandi, Dr. King, and even Jesus provide the examples we can and should follow.

The ultimate reason for street protests, and why many of us believe these approaches are the most effective way to alter the course of our nation, and our government is revealed in your own terms - {the president is now set to escalate the war even though his war policy has already lost his party has already lost him control of Congress, notwithstanding the fact it may lose them more in 2008 and despite the fact that continuing the policy is endangering Republican presidential hopes in 2008 as well. If none of that matters to him, does anyone really think that more street protests would change his mind?"}

Small disperate gatherings are indeed ineffective, and it would appear that something is awry or broken in the system of checks and balances, or co-equal branches of the government. The only way to force change under a totalitarian regime, or a despotic hunta, or a tyrannical king is for the masses, large assemblies gathering frequently to raise our voices, disrupt the business of the government, dominate the political oxygen, - and demand accountability, and change from our socalled leadership.

If not, - we stay the course full steam ahead, no matter what congress or the American people want.

I guess I'm just not sure that an anti-war protest, no matter how valid and how widely supported, would get a fair treatment in our corporate media today. The sound machine is so finely tuned that I think it would just be so misrepresented and every effort would be made to paint it as the "lunatic fringe is at it again".

Even if the media does treat the protest fairly, it can have a bad effect. The fact is, such protests do attract a disproportionate number of fringe figures and groups, attention seekers, political exhibitionists, tie-dyed sixties nostalgists, bubbleheaded entertainment industry figures and profane blowhards. They preach to the most obvious choirs, while at the same time alientating those Americans who should be the prime targets of an effort at persuasion.

Street protests don't work today because of the baggage of the 1960s. It's that blunt. The things that were shocking but effective then are rote, boring, and annoying today. The emotional resonance is very different.

This may have something to do with the fact that these tactics have been used to respond to nearly every liberal cause de jure since the end of the Vietnam War, from the hugely important ones (sanctions on South America) to the less likely ones (keeping Coca-Cola off campuses). A new generation demands a new form of protest. And I think it's worked! The process-based activism of the last several years has yielded far more results than the gigantic marches at the inception of the war.

I do agree with your observations sPh...to me the only way street protests will work now is if they are combined with a heavy dose of civil disobedience.  Blocking streets, entrances to buildings, etc...put a strain on the system and start with and focus on Washington DC.

Street protest demonstrations have been over-used and misused so much since the 1960's that hardly anyone pays attention to them anymore.
The only impressive recent one that I can recall was when the Spanish people congregated in the streets for a moment of silence after the terrorist bombings there.

Peceptions are ticklish and tricky to hold. The idea of protesters being "different" or "outsiders" or "radicals' is vestige of the framing of those who by those who don't.

From the street protester perception - the exurban, supposedly law abiding and whatever is meant by "Ordinary" people are different, or outsiders, and while certainly not radical, they are percieved as apathatic, or somnabulant.

My choice of language may have distorted the message, but the spark or ignition I am hoping will arrive will be the moment when the exurban, "Ordinary Law Abiding" insulatd citizens grow so weary and disgusted and maybe frightened by the conduct and the policies of our government - that they will willingly join their fellow urban, different, outsider, more radical fellow American is a massive movement of civil peaceful protest demostrations intent on disrupting the business of the government, dominating the political oxygen, and for the leadership to recognize, listen to, and abide by, the will of the American people.

Quite obviously, no such will exists yet. There will obviously be no massive movement of this kind in America in the near future, because too few American see these means as a way to achieve our shared ends.

My concern is that until that day, - our government will continue staying the course full steam ahead and driving America off the proverbial cliff.

This is a very good point. The immigration rallies resonated politically. But I think that's largely because they were somewhat unique -- to the extent there were showing that what many assuming was an unorganized constituency -- immigrant hispanics -- was actually very organized and ready to make their voice heard. So I agree. But it's a unique case.

=== My choice of language may have distorted the message, but the spark or ignition I am hoping will arrive will be the moment when the exurban, "Ordinary Law Abiding" insulatd citizens grow so weary and disgusted and maybe frightened by the conduct and the policies of our government - that they will willingly join their fellow urban, different, outsider, more radical fellow American is a massive movement of civil peaceful protest demostrations intent on disrupting the business of the government, dominating the political oxygen, and for the leadership to recognize, listen to, and abide by, the will of the American people. ===

Interesting bit of dialectic, but I am afraid you are going to be waiting a /long/ time. Americans don't think that way, don't want to think that way, and believe they are smart enough to make political decisions for themselves without having their social structure attacked.

sPh

The fact is, such protests do attract a disproportionate number of fringe figures and groups, attention seekers, political exhibitionists, tie-dyed sixties nostalgists, bubbleheaded entertainment industry figures and profane blowhards.

 Ahhh, my kind of people! (And what a qualifier: "Disproportionate"! ) Yes, and artists, poets, dancers and mad musicians willing to give away their art, their poetry, their magic for the benefit of those not singing with all their heart in the choir! Yes! We need to make it fun to sing in the choir, we need to all sing!

And the funny thing about demonstrations in the street, for those that may not have participated, is that quite often a lot of shoulders get rubbed and some eyes get opened and despite the mythic fear of non-conformity alienation shrinks away and hides in the shadows waiting to be brought out once more by masters of fear. Once people find out that they can work together they find immense power and energy. How can there be a disproportionate number of non-conformists? They are invaluable, especially when the situation looks hopeless. 

No worries at all that the forces of fear who'll bring out their oh so properly sanctioned clubs, chemical weapons, little plastic bullets, ultra-modern plastic goo and the ever popular electric zzzzappers alienating anyone though 'cause they've got TV, er, that is God, uh that is the corporation, uh I mean the government on their side.

OK, I'm enjoying myself maybe a little too much here.  Sorry for going of on a rant, but maybe you can get my drift.

Shorter Josh:

Street protests are ineffective. Forget about it.

Voting is effective, except when it's not effective like... well, like now with this war.

Why ineffective? Because Bush is boneheaded and even if he were not the Dems in Congress would never bring the troops home.

So the vote was antiwar and the vote was entirely ineffective.

Now what was your point again about street protests?

Control of Congress matters. Oversight matters. Subpoena power matters.

Is it as extreme as I'd like to see? Not at all. But at least it's movement in the right direction. That was not achieved by years of tried and true protest tactics.

Don't get me wrong. I was at the very large Chicago protest on the eve of the war, one of the few that was actually covered. It did precisely nothing. I'm convinced that Howard Dean's model of opposition is more likely to get us out of Iraq than ANSWER's.

Street protests. Why?

Orange

Frankly, the cops are so gung ho, well armed, and well ARMORED and so numerous that I think it would quickly turn ugly.

These guys are so Kevlar-ed up, they look like the Storm Troopers from Star Wars. Not only to I think they would be willing to beat on old ladies or whatever, I think they'd enjoy it.

Compare them to the '68 cops - all they had were helmets and clubs - or Bull Connor's Barnies in short sleeves. The new guys look like robots and the armor only further alienates them from humanity and the empathy of pain.

No flowers in the gun barrel here, or the guy in the tank stopping in Tianemen Square - it's the gung ho video game generation protecting 'civilization.'

I will say one thing in favor of street protests, they connect bodies and faces with the voices of protest. There is so much anonymity and lack of accountability on the Internet (I willingly point to my own moniker here), that it is as easy to dismiss such actions as it is to dismiss SPAM.

What is unfortunate is the general lack of creative vision in making public statements in the form of protest. In a way, one needs a more theatric event to grab attention, even if that is beyond the relevence in terms of attendee numbers. One movement I become increasingly impressed with is Truth.org, the anti-smoking campaign. I just saw their latest add featuring ice sculptures of women with their wombs hollowed out and filled with dolls. The sight of those bodies melting, followed by the statement regarding how many children lose their mothers to tobacco related causes was chilling.

In all, I don't credit the anti-war movement, virtual or street, with last November's political shift. What did it was the constant media exposure of Katrina, the deteriorating situation in Iraq, and the insurgent "Ramadan Surge." Whether or not the insurgency calculated enough to influence the election, it certainly had that impact. The fact that Bush is still pushing for more troops is a testament to his ability to focus squarely upon achieving his objectives without the nuisance of domestic chaos (as Katrina demonstrated).

Now that the Democrats are in charge on Capitol Hill, there's a chance for tactful protest to get a fair hearing. We'll see come summer, I believe.

I'm not sure how new a phenomenon hyper-militarized police are. I can remember a phalanx march out a door behind a stage after S.I. Hayakawa gave an address at my university back in the day. They reminded me more of something out of "The Seven Samurai" than keepers of the peace. And, yeah I've seen that horse armor before. I actually felt a little relieved for the horses, bleeding heart that I am.