Obama Says No One Should Be Forced to Sign up For Insurance; Edwards Says If You Don’t, He’ll Garnish Your Wages—Who is Right?
John Edwards' declaration that under his health reform proposal anyone who refuses to sign up for health insurance will be subject to having their wages garnished has led to a blogstorm of often confusing debates. Under national health reform, should everyone be required to enroll? The Edwards and Clinton plans have mandates insisting that all Americans purchase insurance; the Obama plan has a mandate for children, but not for adults.
New York Times columnist Paul Krugman stirred controversy Friday by defending Edwards, and criticizing Barack Obama: “Under Obama’s health care plan, healthy people could choose not to buy insurance—then sign up for it if they developed health problems later,” Krugman observed. “As a result, people who did the right thing and bought insurance when they were healthy would end up subsidizing those who didn’t sign up for insurance until or unless they needed medical care.”
On Sunday former FCC Commissioner Reed Hundt called Krugman out here on TPM Cafe in a post headlined “Ease up, Dr. Krugman.” According to Hundt: “The very idea of government mandates directed to individuals evokes a command-and-control model that disturbs citizens who want to enjoy certain freedoms in choosing health care.” His post (below) is drawing many comments--some on point, some muddying the waters.
Because the conversation in the blogosphere has become such a mix of good information, misinformation and false assumptions, I’ve decided to try to spell out, as clearly as possible, why we need a mandate. Very simply, it addresses a serious defect in our health care system: under existing rules, you don’t have to buy insurance, but you can be priced out of the insurance system if you are sick.After examining that problem--and looking at how requiring insurance solves it-- I’d like to answer a sensible question that observers like the Washington Monthly’s Kevin Drum have raised: Why force people to buy insurance? Why not just tax everyone, put the money in a pool similar to the Medicare Trust Fund, and use it to buy universal insurance?
Begin with one of the most serious inequities in our current system. Today, laws in many states, including California, allow insurance companies to refuse to cover anyone applying for an individual policy who suffers from a “pre-existing condition”--including common conditions such as asthma or pregnancy. As a result, if a person loses her group coverage—either because she changes jobs or because her employer no longer offers health benefits—and then discovers that she’s pregnant, she may find that she is uninsurable.
Moreover, even if you manage to secure coverage, in many states the insurer can jack up your premiums if you become sick and actually begin using your policy. A small business also may find itself penalized if one or more of its employees become seriously ill; in some cases employers have had to cancel insurance for the entire group because they couldn’t afford spiraling premiums.
In addition, the Los Angeles Times reports (see a 1/08/07 story by Lisa Girion, available by subscription), in states like California private insurers can –and do—refuse to insure entire categories of workers who they deem “too risky” to cover, including roofers, pro athletes, dockworkers, migrant workers and firefighters , even if they are in good health and can afford coverage. The LA Times looked at confidential underwriting guidelines of three health plans: Blue Shield of California, PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. and Health Net Inc. which all said that “actuarially speaking,” certain workers pose too big a risk.
A last resort for people turned away by the private market is a state's high-risk pool, in which the state assumes the financial risk while paying private insurers to administer coverage. But in California, enrollees must lay out as much as one-third of their income on monthly premiums that cost up to $796 (see 12/21/06 story by Lisa Girion, also in the L.A. Times). Meanwhile, annual benefits are capped at just $75,000. If your child is diagnosed with cancer, it’s likely that you’ll run through that $75,000 in less than six months. Then what do you do?
In each case, insurers are penalizing people for being sick, or because it seems likely that they might be injured. Those who most need insurance are excluded. It is one thing to raise car insurance premiums if a driver has a series of accidents (suggesting that he might well be a reckless driver). But most people become sick through no fault of their own, No matter how careful we are, unless we die in an accident, each of us is going to become seriously ill at some point in our lives. We just don’t know when. This is why we all need insurance.
To prevent insurers from shunning the sick, some states, including New York, have passed “community rating laws” which say that insurers must charge everyone in a given community the same price for the same policy, regardless of age or health status. Moreover, insurers are not allowed to hike rates because a business or an individual has made claims.
In states like New York, where community rating applies, no one is left out in the cold. If an individual wants to apply for a new insurance policy, he does not have to report pre-existing conditions. But he does have to show that he was already insured with another carrier; you cannot just wait until you’re diagnosed and then decide you want coverage.
Insurance in New York is much more expensive than it is in California because the pool includes sick people who would have been excluded in California. (The percent of premiums that insurers pay out to provide care is roughly the same in both states. Insurers don’t make higher profits in New York. If anything, they prefer to operate in states like California where they can hope to avoid patients suffering from serious, debilitating diseases).
If you are young and healthy, you might prefer to live in a state like California, where insurance is cheaper—assuming you don’t mind living in a state where your mother can’t get insurance because she has had breast cancer and your best friend can’t afford insurance because she’s a diabetic.
Progressives believe-- rightly, I think-- that most of us don’t want to live in such a society. So the three leading Democratic candidates, including Obama, are calling for community rating. Their proposals for reform offer citizens a choice between public sector insurance (that would be much like Medicare) and private sector insurance, and under their plans, both public and private insurers would abide by community rating, insuring everyone in the community, young or old, sick or healthy, at the same price.
And to make sure that everyone can afford the price, the government would offer subsidies, based on income. Thus, only upper-income twenty-somethings would wind up paying the full price. The subsidies are key. As The American Prospect’s Paul Starr points out:
“The secret power of the mandate is that it is as much a mandate on government as it is on individuals. It is a mandate on government to make coverage available and affordable. For it would be patently unacceptable to demand that people have coverage and then provide no practical way for many people to get it.” But the government (i.e. taxpayers) will be able to afford those subsidies only if the healthy and wealthy participate in the pool.
Why Insuring Everyone Means That Everyone Must Be Insured
If we want community rating, Edwards and Clinton realize that we also must mandate that everyone sign up. Otherwise, no one would buy insurance until they were sick or elderly; then they would enroll, secure in the knowledge that insurers had to cover them, and couldn’t charge them more. Meanwhile, the insurance pool would be comprised mainly of people who are expensive to insure, and premiums would skyrocket.
Put simply, mandates are the flip side of community rating. If you want to say insurance must cover everyone—even if they are suffering from a slow, progressive disease like Parkinson’s—then you have to insist that everyone gets into the pool. This is the only way we can afford universal coverage. If you think about it, this is precisely what Medicare does: no one over 65 is excluded, but everyone—even the young and healthy-- must pay the same percentage of their paycheck in Medicare taxes.
In the end, Harvard economist David Cutler, Obama’s health care adviser, agrees that for national health reform to work, we will need to bring everyone in under the tent. But he says that, rather than forcing people to buy insurance, Obama believes “a better approach is to do everything possible to make it affordable and available. When it is, almost everyone will have it.”
Will everyone sign up? Many young people look in the mirror and feel immortal. Meanwhile, young libertarians just don’t believe that they have a responsibility to help cover others. In Massachusetts, where there is no mandate, over 200,000 of the Commonwealth’s uninsured have refused to sign up. Roughly one-fifth of the refuseniks earn more than $50,000 a year; many are under 35, but choose not to buy coverage even although under the Massachusetts plan, a 27-year-old can buy insurance for as little as $176 a month.
Cutler’s idealism is sincere. He, like Obama, would prefer to soft-sell reform. But it’s telling that, in the interview with Sentinel Effect last Friday. Cutler went on to acknowledge that: “If there are free riders [people who don’t sign up but expect to receive care if they’re in an accident], Obama is open to mandates. . . . He hasn’t ruled anything out. It’s a matter of priorities. The fact is the policy differences on the mandate issue aren’t that large at all. Sen. Obama believes they’re an option down the road, if other approaches don’t work.” [emphasis mine].
In other words it seems that Obama, like Edwards and Clinton, realizes that in the end mandates may well be needed. But right now, Obama is targeting younger voters, and this isn’t what they want to hear.Edwards, on the other hand, says he wants to be honest: “I’m going to tell people what I’m going to do and how I’m going to do it.”
As a matter of political strategy, I would say that Edwards may be honest to a fault. It’s probably not necessary to talk about “enforcement” now.But if Americans want universal, affordable insurance, they need to understand that, to achieve that goal, everyone must help. Insurance, when it works, is all about spreading risks.
Still, when Edwards talks about enforcing the rule that everyone purchase insurance, people like Reed Hundt become anxious. “Could an employer fire an employee for not adhering to a mandate?” he asks. “Could the police arrest those who fail by accident, confusion, or even negligence not to sign up? Could a hospital decline to treat those who did not comply with a mandate?”
The answer is ‘No.’ As Paul Krugman explains, “If individuals don’t have insurance, they won’t be penalized, they’ll be automatically enrolled in an insurance plan. That’s actually a terrific idea,” he adds, “not only would it prevent people from gaming the system [by becoming “free riders”] it would have the side benefit of enrolling people who qualify for S-chip and other government programs, but don’t know it.
”How will the government know whether or not you have insurance? At TNR, Johnathn Cohn has weighed in with a long discussion of just how many people Obama’s plan might leave uncovered—and suggests that one of Obama’s advisers has information showing that under Edwards’ plan, even more Americans would be left “going naked.”
I don’t see how this could be the case. Under Edwards’ plan, every time you come in contact with the government or a health care provider (filing income taxes, enrolling your children in a public school, showing up at an ER or a doctor’s office) you would be asked for your insurance policy number, just as you are routinely asked for your social security number. If you didn’t have one, your name and social security number would be typed into the system, automatically enrolling you in a public sector plan.
Then, if your income is too high to qualify for a full subsidy, you would be billed for your fair share, either as part of the payroll tax you now pay for Social Security and Medicare, or ( if you are self-employed) through your income taxes. (There are, of course people who don’t earn a salary and don’t file income taxes, but the majority are very poor, and would qualify for the full subsidy anyway).
Forcing Americans to pay their share of health insurance may sound Draconian, but again, this is exactly what Medicare does, and very few people object. Yes, the tax takes a chunk out of their paychecks, but the vast majority feel secure knowing that when they are 65, they can count on receiving health care no matter how sick they are. And there is every reason to believe that a public sector program modeled on Medicare would be just as popular as Medicare itself.
Which brings me to Kevin Drum’s question. In Washington Monthly, he writes: “a Rube Goldberg enforcement program like [Edwards’] does nothing except highlight the absurdity of individual mandate healthcare plans in the first place. If you're really this serious about getting every man, woman, and child in the country enrolled, why go through all this? Why not just do it like Medicare, where the funding mechanism is the existing tax system and everyone is enrolled automatically? It amounts to the same thing and it's cheaper, easier, and less intrusive.”
There are four reasons: First, in the recession we’ll be facing in 2009, it will be much harder to persuade Congress to pass a tax increase than it will be to persuade legislators that everyone should have health insurance—just as we now require everyone to sign up for auto insurance.
The second reason is closely connected to the first: many of the taxpayers who elect those Congressmen don’t want to pay taxes into a single Medicare –for-all system. A 2007 poll shows that while 76 percent of Americans favor offering a government subsidized plan to Americans who don’t have employer-based insurance, only 26 percent favor paying more income taxes to expand either Medicare or Medicaid. Seventy-four percent are opposed. In other words, just as in Massachusetts, everyone favors universal care, but the majority of voters do not want to pay higher taxes to support it.
Moreover, as I’ve written recently on HealthBeat the polls also reveal that 80 percent of Americans like the private insurance they have now—or at least they like it better than an unknown alternative. Their main worry is that they will not be able to afford what they have in the future. They do not want to be told that we are all going to be funneled into a brand new government-funded Medicare-for-All System. They want the choice of keeping the devil they know (i.e. their private-sector insurance).
Finally, in order to afford universal health care, we will have to be more careful about wasting health care dollars. This means that we can’t cover every pill or product that someone decides to advertise on TV. All three Democratic candidates have called for independent research comparing just how effective new products and procedures are when tested, head to head, with existing products. (This is something that we don’t do now. A new product can win FDA approval simply by showing that it is better than a placebo).
If we have only a public sector plan, everyone will blame “the government” or “socialized medicine” when they are told “No,” their insurance won’t cover the pink pill that is twice as expensive as existing products because medical research says it is no better.
If we have both public sector and private sector insurance, private insurers will usually follow the public sector’s decisions about what the cover—if they don’t, private insurers will have a very hard time competing on price. Thus, those who fear “socialized medicine” will begin to understand that even private insurers cannot cover every pill, product or procedure that comes down the pike—at whatever price the manufacturer chooses to charge. Premiums would be unaffordable.
Over time, if private insurers are forced to compete with public sector insurance on a level playing field (which means that all insurers offer community rating and that all offer benefits that are, at a minimum, as rich and comprehensive as Medicare), I think that the majority of Americans will wind up picking the public sector plan. The public sector plan should be able to offer better value for our health care dollars because it doesn’t have as many extra expenses: Medicare doesn’t have to return profits to investors; it doesn’t have to advertise and lobby Congress, and it doesn’t pay its executives the seven-digit salaries that for-profit insurers feel they must pay in order to compete with each other.
But right now, many Americans are nervous about health insurance. And they don’t trust government. They need time to decide whether they feel more comfortable with for-profit insurance or a public program. In the meantime, we need to ensure that everyone is covered, and that everyone helps weave the safety net. That’s why we need community rating and mandates. It’s all about solidarity.


I still don't see the point in saving the private sector participants. You make a good argument that it gives people an option if the government refuses to cover something that they want, but you also say that the privates will likely follow the public example anyway.
If we had a purely public system the private insurers could immediately start in new businesses -- covering things like "drugs of your choice" or even plastic surgery.
I really don't like the idea of the government forcing me to pay money to any private company. It's bad enough with auto insurance. And state government shave done a rotten job keeping auto insurance rates reasonable.
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com
December 4, 2007 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maggie
Thanks- as usual for a comprehensive sober analysis of this debate. I personally disagree with your comment
Yes Americans are very nervous indeed about health insurance. Yes they don't trust especially the federal government but I posit EXCEPT for an issue like health care.
The sad thing about this mandate vs non-mandate debate is that it diverts us from the "elephant sitting in the health care reform room"- namely cost containment.
If we don't figure out compassionate methods to contain costs all this debate about how health care will be delivered and funded is trivial.
Of course politicians are cirumspect when addressing cost containment because it sounds like denial of treatment and the "R" word= Rationing- which we all know is inevitable.
But someone will have the courage to tell the American people that "more in medicine is not always better" and it is ALL of our best interests to contain costs "yesterday"
Be Well and Thanks again,
Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
December 4, 2007 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
An uniformed populace is not a good reason to support an inefficient plan (private insurance). If people are afraid of the "government" then set up an agency to run the insurance program. People don't seem to be afraid of Medicare even if it is part of HHS.
So let's establish a public, quasi-independent agency (like Fannie Mae was before it was trashed) to handle the paperwork for those not eligible for Medicare/Medicaid.
Using the arguments of practicality and public fear just plays into the hands of the private insurance industry. Take them out of the loop and we save 30%. That should go a long way toward covering those with no income without raising premiums.
The waffling of the Dems and the lies of the GOP aren't helping either. Universal coverage is not "socialized" medicine, but who is countering the propaganda?
Five years ago few believed in global warming, now most do. Education has a value. Liberals should make this the basis of any programs for social change.
--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape
December 4, 2007 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to tell you that George Bush gave the word "compassion" a bad name. I don't trust the word. What are you talking about?
December 4, 2007 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can we expect Americans, who are locked into a "what's in it for me" mode, to ever accept a health insurance program that costs them more than they are now paying? It just isn't going to happen. Unless we can somehow build up the altruistic genes in our population we are stuck on this issue.
Of course any universal coverage system would deliver better and less expensive health care for our citizens as a whole. That isn't hard to demonstrate. But, we don't now make decisions based on what is best for our citizens as a whole. We make decisions based on what is best for us personally.
This is why the only politically possible universal health coverage scheme is an expansion of an existing, and well regarded program like Medicare. All it takes is starting by making Medicare effective at a younger age, making it effective for those with children younger than 10, for example, then waiting a couple of years and nudging those limits a bit further.
An added "benefit" for approaching it like this is that it leaves the insurance industry with its Medicare Supplemental insurance as a product. I see this as a win-win program.
This type of program would also work if Medicare covered everyone, but with much higher deductibles for young, healthy adults, for example.
Hoppy in Sacramento
December 4, 2007 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
bluebell
I'm talking about individual(health behaviors) AND institutional (public health)prevention and I'm talking about giving people a dignified death like both my parents had in hospice.Not prolonging death which is actually cruel and serves to only add to hospitals bottom $ lines.
Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
December 4, 2007 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're overlooking, I think, that people are increasingly realizing that they are only one serious illness or one layoff away from financial disaster. I think there are far more people today than there were 15 years ago who are open to paying a little more now for the assurance that they cannot lose their health coverage or be priced out of the market no matter what happens to them.
December 4, 2007 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
December 4, 2007 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for your comments.
I'll come back and respond in more detail to indivdual comments later.
But for now, let me make a suggestion. Since this post is about mandates, let's talk about mandates!
That said, I reallize that whenever I type the phrase "Private Insurance" many of you feel a need to respond.
It's as if I had whispered the words "public sector" or "govt' run" into the ear of a conservative. I've hit a button and suddenly he or she is off and running, talking about the post office (Would you want health care run by the people who run THE POST OFFICE!.!!!)
(When in fact, the post office does a pretty good job. I've never understood why people are so irrational about the post office. It think it's just one of those conservative memes--touch it and they scream. I've sent and received hundreds of letters and packages over the years and I can't recall one disaster.)
That said, I realize that many of you believe that public-sector insurance (something like Medicare for All) would be far more efficient and provide us with better value than private sector insurance. I AGREE. Completely. Entirely. Always Have.
But in this country, at this time, you and I are in a minority. And I'm interested in getting health care reform that will help the many, many poor and sick people who are now uninsured, even if it's not exactly the plan I would design for them. Moreover, I believe that the plans that all 3 DEmocrats have proposed woudl cause the private insurance industry to "wither away' over time.
How many of you read to the end of this post? Okay, I write long posts. But as you know, I put a lot of time into this, and it's hard to have a conversation with you if you don't read to the end.
Moreover, there is some new information at the end: namely that 80% of the population likes the private-sector insurance they have. For most, it's employer-based group insurance. It's famliar. It's a known. They are not sure how Medicare for all would work. How high would the co-pays and premiums be? (Medicare's co-pays and premiums have been rising steeply) Would it cover acupuncture the way their employer's insurance does? They are clinging to what is famliar.
Please, read to the end of the post, All 3 Democrats are offering everyone the choice between private insurance and public-sector insurance roughly modeled on Medicare. Note to DESTOR 23--no one would be forced to buy private insurance.
Many people might keep the employer-based insurance they have now. But if private insurers were forced to compete with public sector insurance on a level playing field (thanks to govt' regulation,of private insurers, which all 3 Democrats propose) I suspect that over time, many would see that their neighbor who selected Medicare- for- all was getting a good deal and they would switch.
We've talked about private insurance vs. private sector insurance before. More than once. Now we're on to a new subject Mandates. And it's interesting.
Did you know that in N.Y. you can get insurance and not be charged any more than anyone else even if you have cancer?
Did you know that in California, a firefighter could be considered "uninsurable"? Or that if you were pregnant, and not part of a group, insurance companies could refuse to cover you?? OR charge such astronomical premiums that you couldn't possibly afford insurance?
Why do you think Obama isn't calling for mandates? What do you think about Edwards' position?
Read the post: let's have a conversation on a new topic.
Looking forward to hearing from you. mm
December 4, 2007 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
December 4, 2007 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we have to stop being intimidated by being in the minority. When did that ever stop the lunatics on the right from pushing their agenda? The squeaky wheel eventually gets heard.
I have some trouble with the selectively coercive nature of mandates. All those better off folks who are already insured by having better jobs at better employers escape the coercive mandate. It's just Joe Six (Sick) Pack who has no employer benefits and finds himself confronted with a new cost in the mandate. He's as likely to resent it as appreciate it since he knows those with employer benefits aren't facing the coercion. In a sense, there's a new "tax" but only those most vulnerable have to pay it.
December 4, 2007 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really don't like the idea of the government forcing me to pay money to any private company.
In the plan described here, the government wouldn't be forcing you to pay money to a private company. They would be forcing you to pay money to the government for public insurance IF you didn't already have privacy insurance. Its only if you don't have insurance at all that they will automatically enroll you for the public insurance Keeping the private sector participants around is so those who like their privacy sector insurance can keep it.
I disagree that most people will eventually move to public insurance. If you have insurance, most of the problem with the health care system is the hassle - the bureaucracy and paperwork. If Medicare is any judge, the public-sector system will have errors aplenty. If I am on the public sector system, then I have to complain to the government. If I am on an employer based private system, then my employer (who is a lot bigger than me) is complaining to another company, and will get a lot farther.
December 4, 2007 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ms. Mahar, I'm so ANGRY at you for continuing to push this mandate NONSENSE that I can't even begin to tell you. But I'm gonna tell you this.
A month ago I was uninsured. Had been for several years, A few weeks ago I started a new job with 100% insurance coverage from the first day. I have a new health insurance card, as of last Thursday. Friday, I got a letter from that insurer informing me in all effect that I was not covered at all (pre-existing conditions, which I have a number of).
What's the difference between my situation a month ago and my situation today? NOTHING. Except that I have a WORTHLESS insurance card in my pocket.
I STILL have to pay OUT OF POCKET for ALL of my current and expectable medical expenses, which are considerable (expectable, because they would likely be a result of my pre-existing conditions).
If someone FORCED me to pay for the insurance I now have - I'D BE MORE ANGRY THAN I CAN TELL YOU.
Right now, Ms. Mahar, I regret this, but I have to be honest with you. NO, I didn't read your whole post. Because I think MANDATES ARE INDEFENSIBLY STUPID, and I don't want to get any angrier at you than I already am.
Do you see what's happening in the polls since Ms. Clinton proposed mandates? I hope so. It's about this issue.
You and people who like this brain-dead stupid mandate idea have a HUGE BLIND SPOT. And you know as well as I do what it is.
THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE MADE COVERING SICK PEOPLE. IF you force private insurers to insure sick people, they'll do what capitalists do - RAISE THEIR PREMIUMS - A LOT.
Whoever does pay for it, it will COST SOMETHING. The question is simply whether the MORAL and ETHICAL IMPERATIVE outweighs the simple ECONOMIC truth. So for you to continue to argue about the economics is for you to ENTIRELY MISS THE POINT.
It's not about economics, Ms. Mahar. Not for people like me. And it never has been. I'm a SOCIALIST, and economic considerations aren't even SECONDARY for me, let alone PRIMARY, and certainly not SOLITARY.
SINGLE PAYER. NOW. BECAUSE SOME THINGS ARE TOO IMPORTANT TO BE ABOUT MONEY.
December 4, 2007 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
December 4, 2007 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're absolutely right, my bad.
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com
December 4, 2007 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what's your definition of Joe Six (Sick) Pack, but there is a good chance that he'll get some subsidies, so overall he is going to be better off. BTW, in case of universal health care, do you expect that taxes of Joe Six (Sick) Pack will not be icreased at all to pay for his health care? Do expect Bill Gates to pay for all of us?
December 4, 2007 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is not calling for mandates because he has successfully passed healthcare legislation in IL and he knows that mandates are not politically viable. Obama also knows as you mentioned that if the process gets rolling then private insurance will 'wither away' Obama chooses to make healthcare affordable for those who want it as the first step and then evolve to single payor system. He eventually would like to have single payor system but he knows that the problem is urgent and we need to have a plan that can pass through Congress before the next decade. Obama is therefore advocating a plan that he knows will appeal to employers and consumers. Corporations want to get healthcare off their backs so they are globally competitive and 45M consumers need healthcare. This means that the stage is right for legislation to be passed as it would be a win-wn. However mandates are nothing but an obstacle to this process and an unecessary wedge issue that can derail the entire process. Mandates are not the way to go.
I do not like Edwards position. I get angry thinking about the government keeping my tax return to pay for healthcare. The word mandate alone is upsetting. I like the idea of choice. If I want to opt into the government plan I can or I can choose to remain with the private insurance I presently have.
Krugman's analysis on mandates and Edwards plan is wrong.
December 4, 2007 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maggie,
Thanks for the kind correction. Now, onto mandates and their political feasibility -- well, this is just like the private/public issue. If the votes aren't there to provide medicare for all, it's also possible that the votes aren't there in support of a mandatory program.
My question to you, Maggie is... what if the public's attitude on this can be summed up as "Do Not Want!"
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com
December 4, 2007 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
John One One--
I understand why you are so angry,.
But under the mandated plan that Edwards is proposing, insurers could not refuse to cover you because of a pre-exiting condition. You would have full insurance.
To find out more about how and why, please read the post.
December 4, 2007 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maggie, I'm just curious, why do you ignore Clnton plan?
December 4, 2007 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with the idea of phasing it in by gradually decreasing the age for medicare eligibility while making Medicare's coverage more realistic for younger patients. That is one way that could really work.
I don't agree with this: How can we expect Americans, who are locked into a "what's in it for me" mode, to ever accept a health insurance program that costs them more than they are now paying? It just isn't going to happen. Unless we can somehow build up the altruistic genes in our population we are stuck on this issue.
Each of us (or a close family member) is far more likely to have a catastrophic -- or at least VERY expensive - medical event, than to be injured by a terrorist. Yet, we* pour out our shampoo, we take off our shoes, we let the government listen to our calls, we sanction torture, and on and on... Why? Because WE* have bought into the fear-mongering of those who profit by our fears.
We* need to realize that a healthy populace is good for all of us. We* need to understand that if we* had the bad luck to fall down the stairs in our own home and broke our back, it may spell financial ruin for us and our family, whereas the same injury occurring in say, Saks 5th Avenue would get us years of help without costing the family anything. Health care by lawsuit, and Public Health by WalMart (see flu shots) is not MY idea of "what's in it for me" medicine.
My point is that we have all given up so much from the very distant threat of terrorism, and what citizen can claim that they benefitted from those measures.
We just need to find a way to personalize the very large threat to all of us from being vulnerable by not having health care. No one is safe from the devastation of serious injury or illness without health care coverage. We are all one banana peel away from a $1,000,000 hospital bill.
I personally am for a single-payer, non-profit system. There are many programs available to evaluate therapies and tests in terms of their efficacies; there are ways to keep costs down if the right people are included in decision-making.
*We --> I refer here to the general populace, who Hoppy talks about above; those who say "what's in it for me?" all the while giving up quality of life and freedom because they are afraid of the next 911.
Jan
December 4, 2007 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink